CPV: 35222310.
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GSI340 |
Mark IIIs for sale! |
Lead | ||
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Irish rail mark III fleet of locomotive coaches built between
1984 -1988 are being replaced and are available for sale. The total fleet comprises 133 vehicles although Irish Rail may retain some vehicles.
CPV: 35222310. |
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Donnybrook Observer |
#1 | |||
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The link to this is at:
http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR101275 I would be of the opinion that this is an initial statement of intent, in order to see how much interest (presumably among UK train operators) is in the market. Nothing will take place until 2009 at the earliest until after the 22000 Class are all delivered, and given that orders for further intermediate cars for the 22K are probably going to be essential to extend the 3-car sets up to 6-car sets as demand rises, then this will definitely be over a phased period. They state 85-133 vehicles, which would mean retaining 6 sets if only 85 are disposed: 2 as backup on Dublin/Cork to the Mark 4 3 to convert Dublin/Belfast to hourly 1 as a backup for Dublin/Belfast
Last Edited By: Donnybrook Observer 16/04/2008 15:38:33.
Edited 1 time.
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Eastern Nat |
#2 | |||
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Am slightly confused by this.
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RDML |
#3 | |||
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I think they are pretty much the same design as the British Mark III coaches.
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KD 191 |
#4 | |||
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These sets would be considered quite young and high grade in some rail fleets worldwide
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djasmith |
#5 | |||
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WOW!!!!!! I've ALWAYS wanted one of those! My dad's family had a CIE rail coach in the 60's and 70's fitted out as a holiday home.... I always
dreamed of doing the same! If only I could afford one
Anyone got any idea how much they'd be expected to fetch?? |
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KD 191 |
#6 | |||
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Hard to say what they would be worth , but sets of their grade would be in seriously high demand in the developing world where rail sets from the 1920s are
still in service , I saw an article recently that reported that 20 year old German rail sets had been sold to Russia , and the Russians have been unable to get
them into service as they are technologically too far ahead of the Russian rail system to be compatible
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djasmith |
#7 | |||
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but are the width of the rails on which they run in this country narrower than everywhere else or something?? remember seeing that on discovery (its about all
I know about railways)..... can that be easily adapted??
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KD 191 |
#8 | |||
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I'm not sure how true this is but I was told recently that CIE rail sets disposed of in the 1950's and 60's are still in service on the African
continant somewhere , the current rail sets could be adapted for use anywhere , it just depends on how much the new owner is willing to spend on the work
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oneonetwo |
"Width of rails" | #9 | ||
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The opposite is the case. The rail "width" or "gauge" as it is known, is wider in Ireland than on the mainland or on our neighbouring
island. Ireland is 5'3" wide (metric anybody?) and the rest of Europe is 4'8" wide. Some railways in Australia are also 5'3" and
these are referred to as being " Irish gauge".
Last Edited By: oneonetwo 08/05/2008 11:57:38.
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Eastern Nat |
#10 | |||
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-----
and the rest of Europe is 4'8" wide ----- I think that should be 'most' of ..... Doesn't the Russian and ?Spanish railway run on a different guage ? I seem to remember that the train ferry wagons which came in thru Harwich had an axle change at both those borders. |
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Spideog |
#11 | |||
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Just on the issue of "using" the Mark 3s outside of Ireland, there is two main issues in relation to the width of trains that need to be borne to
mind.
One of course is the width of the wheels, which is referred to as gauge. Most of the world uses 4' 8 1/2"; Ireland, parts of Australia, Brazil and some parts of Russia use 5' 3" which is as oneonetwo says is called the "irish gauge". The other issue is the width of the carriages themselves and is called "loading gauge". In the days when Irish railway companies built their own wagons and rolling stock, the extra 6 1/2" of track gauge allowed an extra bit of space to be carried (Which still happens with some freight wagons), but at the expense of requiring specific designs for passenger stock. It was mainly in the interests of economics that CIE decided to go for stock designs that saw the introduction of the successful Mark 2 and 3. Older rolling stock was traditionally of frame and panel construction, the Mark 2 and 3 are effectively a steel tube and would prove insanely dear to adapt for 4 centimeters of seat space. All that needed to be done was to hang new bogies fitted for Irish tracks which was easy done; once this is done there is no issues with them being to wide for the UK. BTW The Irish Park Royals were reputedly the widest carriages used in the British Isles as a result of using this extra half foot. I can't speak for the state of the Mark 3's but assuming that they are structurally sound, I should see them almost all being sold with relative ease. Some of the Mark 2's had serious issues with rusting panels at the carriage ends. This was costing almost €100k per carriage to replace in those that were fit to be repaired so they were not viable to be saved or sold on.
Last Edited By: Spideog 17/05/2008 13:43:34.
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wise1946 |
Track Gauge | #12 | ||
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The solution to exporting the Mk III coaches has always been to provide new bogies. The bogies will be the gauge of the receiving railway and the coaches will
sit on these narrower bogies. There are two problems here which means that the coaches would have limited use. One is the that the centre of roll of the new
combination will be over a narrower base ( 3.5 inches each side) and the the coaches will be more likely to roll out (tilt) on bends. In the South East of
England for example the class 465 and 466 EMUs need to have a tilting tolerance of millimeters to avoid tunnel and bridge infrastructure! Even too many
standing passengers can cause a problem by raising the centre of gravity!!. In addition there is the problem of the vehicle profile or loading gauge. In the UK
( and Ireland) this is 108 inches (2743 mm) wide and 121 inches (3353 mm ) high. The European (Berne -UIC:A) loading gauge is 122 inches (3150) wide and 168
inches (4280 mm) at maximum height. So while the Irish Mk III coaches will fit into tunnels and bridges in Europe, they might cause a tilt problem on some UK
lines without stiffened suspension. In Europe the problem is platforms. The would be an additional 7 inch gap between an Irish Mk II and a continental platform
- assuming the height would be a safety match!. This is of course a very simplified version of reality -there being several UIC loading gauges in Europe and
would provide ample gauge clearance for Irish Mark IIIs.
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